As such, I wouldnt really consider a dry lay option on top of old concrete unless the customer very much wanted it, and unless the flagstone itself were going to have a really tight fitting joints for example if it was going to be a pattern cut, square and rectangular flagstones with minimal joints then, if the walkway is pitched strong enough there really is not much way for a very much in order to get down there in the first place. It would compact into a pretty hard surface over time. Find someone who specializes in dry laid flagstone work. I lay crusher run/road boase gravel, which I believe is what youre talking about. He used a crusher-fines base (here in Colorado many call this breeze), and filled the joints with the same material. The gravel was solidly stuck together. Fact is, no one really uses it, so I never encounter examples of good, or bad installations using the product. Or 1/4 inch minus gravelof all the synonyms used so far in this article and in the comments, youre the first to bring up 1/4 minus gravel. I was looking for an explanation of red dust. We enclosed the space under our south facing deck as a sun room, hoping to grow some flowers and/or veggies year round and also have a warm sunny place to hang out for three seasons. A ton and a half should work, but buy two tons if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order. Your email address will not be published. I am totally on board with between the cracks, but should I insist on the bed as well? I can say without reservation that you should repair the flagstone patio that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete. My plan was to go with a fairly tight joint for the whole patio but then get even tighter for the 5 feet or so immediately close to the pool.in the end, I think the entire patio got a half inch joint, maybe more like three eighths to a quarter inch, for the few feet closest to the pool, but no major difference, just a smidge tighter right by the pool. I will give the dirt/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out. (you can always just let the weeds go.) You may have to wait a few months since he is sought after like that, but he, does travel to new jersey. I just installed a granite flagstone walkway. I haven't used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it. We were afraid a bigger pest i.e. The real big problem however here is that it tightens up the joints. Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. Make sure to take the proper steps when first installing the pea gravel. Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray. Most areas are failing, so I plan on filling the gaps with stone dust. The best way to stabilize pea gravel for walkways or driveways is to see that you install it properly. Portland cement should not be used. However, applying these types of products can reduce the permeability of pea gravel. Ill probabvly be emailing you soon, to set up a consultation, as we have some questions about cutting, dealing with elevations and drainage issues, just some stuff particular to our project, and it would be good for someone to hold our hand walk us through the process, make us feel more confident about what we need to do. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. Stone thicknesses range from 1 1/4 2 1/4. Stone dust, for life. But I would toss it together with stone dust, mixing the two, and consider it an acceptable joint material, so lang as its at least half stone dust/screenings and so long as its mixed fairly well. 2 or 3? Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? In fact.whereas I am opposed to using cement in the joints, especially if there is no concrete foundationi can at least see a reason to use cement there: trying to avoid weeds, and looking for a stable joint. Ive been researching decomposed granite and want to use that but cannot find a place to buy it. I was told to lay my flag stone like a puzzle with a 3/4 in space in between, and use a mallet to get the flagstones to be level with one an other. Pretty much all of my DIY consultation customers complete their patios, with the final product having much wider joints than I usually allowand then, out in california its popular to build entire walkways using nothing but stone dust. The water from the hose will cause the screenings to settlebut Ill also use the hose to wash out any joints where the stone dust remains even with the top of the flagstone because ultimately, what you want is to have the joints filled to about a quarter inch or so from the top of the flagstone. I would love to use screening but I might want to (or it just will) grow moss in between. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. There was a language barrier with the installers, they were from Brazil. What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. If the foundation is nominal, then there may be shifting. Compacting the gravel will also help keep weeds from coming through. Encourage moss to grow there. The rest are med to med-small with a few fillers. Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. Which is ideal for large joints? it will likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be clean surfaces. Good article, way back then, and still helpful. I would then proceed to use screening in between joints. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. Plus, Ill answer short and sweet questions here on my blog, of course. Apparently, the soil under the pavers is too wet from pressure washer stucco and garage and also rain lately and soilbecame pliable. It is also nice to know you are willing to travel if I have a job in the future that meets your criteria! Lay the 2x down on top of the trench and hammer down to tamp. About ground cover for in between your stones.theres a few good options out there, like Irish moss (not really a moss) and thyme and others. If it is a shady area around your patio you could encourage Moss to grow there and let the most take over so weeds cant grow. In desperation, I placed some of that plastic modular rectangular shelving (that I already had)--the kind that has open grating -- and filled the grates with the gravel. In fairness, we got a LOT of rain almost a foot in a 24 hour span here in St. Louis it made the news for flooding. Effort PA. Southern Poconos. Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? Step 1 - Prepare the Patio Measure the area of your patio that contains the pea gravel, and use this measurement to order the correct amount of binding solution material needed. I want to re-fill the joints of my existing dry laid bluestone patio. Felicity, I am not sure what ochre stone is but I went to a "stone retailer" and explained the problem. If not, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch. It is an old flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the stones. Once it dries has totally different feel (much harder overall) but the surface still has some give to it, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists. I have patio pavers with gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand. | Paver Base Panel vs. Gravel For Patio Base | Patio Ideas On A Budget. I didnt provide enough info. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I had planned to use decomposed granite for bedding and also in the joints. Lets examine these advantages one at a time: Related content: One on one help is available. Should I just stay off until it dries out? With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. 2.5 inches over a ten foot span will be enough, provided there are no major dips. have never once needed to replace a stone, and its maybe 800 sq ft flagstone, all told. And Ive had to repair and replace many such patios.same effect happens when someone decides to cement together the cap of a dry stone wall. I never recommend sealing flagstone. But, you came to me with a need and Id rather give you a complete answer. Do you think this woudl be a better option than concrete with our climate? Devin, What a great article. This mix is damp enough that it clumps together without needing to be smooshed together with the trowelbut just barely: https://www.devineescapes.com/replacing-the-cement-between-flagstones/. Leave the joints about a 1/8 1/4 shy of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished. Theres household cleaners out there, they sell them at the big box stores, probably grocery stores too maybe idk, but its a citrus extract and you have to be careful when cleaning with it because it dissolves some types of plastic. Pea gravel walkways are relatively low maintenance. Will water flow over the flagstones to the drain with dry set stones, or do i need to do something totally different? I figured this was due to the change in temperature? When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. Sure. Okay, so Ive never seen decomposed granite sold anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in Montgomery County for years. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. This second method doesnt clean up quite as easily as the powdery-dry method. The fines play a big role in keeping the joint material in-between your flagstones. Just looking at the drawing, you can imagine that the larger chunks of gravel will stand in more sturdy fashion, with the smaller chips packed in tight between them. Pleas re-read the above article, for my thoughts on that! SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 530: PRO TALK With Architecture Student Phillip Schladweiler, Podcast 529: Cold Floors, Galvanic Corrosion, and Siding Over Board Sheathing. Worried about chair legs busting through. Would appreciate your advice. After reading your article, Im confused.. Is polymeric dust the same thing as screening? -moss. The 3/8 crushed basalt is the right stuff. Another material I had considered was decomposed granite, which I recall seeing a lot in California. I live in mid-state NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over a previously existing concrete patio base. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. Such joints will fail within a few years. Others seem to crack every 4-5 years (near roof leader downspouts and a few other areas that take longer to dry out due to adjoining vegetation). Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Sure, you could do that. Do I nned to re-apply screening? I have a great photo showing this that I will email you separately. I wouldnt use sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away. This article might help a bit too: https://www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/%. Sure, but not forever. I dry laid the flagstone (on a 4-inch compacted base of 5/8th minus gravel with a 1 inch layer of 1/4 minus gravel that the stone was set on top of). If it still collects lots of water, its a good indicator that you need to dig a drainage trench. Best thing you can do to extend the life of your patio mortar joints, living in Colorado or any place with harsh wintersis to stay on top of the snow. I find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag. We laid them about 13" apart, so I guess it would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones. The cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact points. Anyway, Id re-fit the stones. Maybe some other kind of inexpensive metal grating would also work. The result might be messy, but would probably be a good base for something else (brick or stone?). No one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you. It compacts well up to a 5 or 6 inch thickness , anything more than that and it has enough mass for a downward load to sift the particles . Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. What do you suggest using in the joints of a Limestone walkway (in NY)? Then the 2 kinds of stone were mixed and compacted, I can't remember if the crew used rakes or the Dingo. Also, do not have the hose on too powerful of a setting, or you can blow the poly sand right out of the joint, and get it all over the flagstone/paver/whatever. Id love to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG. As such, it handles the Pennsylvania free-thaw rather well. The stone dust would just be compacted by wetting and drying? Consequently, when you place chairs or tables on the gravel, it is less likely to be unsteady and cause furniture to fall over. There are some areas that need repair. Thanks again! Very informative articles. To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. The local product I found looks identical to yours. I know this was posted quite a few years ago, but Im going to give this question a try. You can get rid of weeds easily by boiling up a pot of water in the pouring water on them. How old is your patio? Will take longer to install, but can be made to look real nice. The Patio is shaded except during the winter. Also want to do a seat wall in it. Allowing the pea gravel to dry at least 24 hours between each coat. As a professional contractor, I generally just purchase road base, gravel, and compact it for my foundation. It seemed to work pretty well. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. Ill keep trying to keep the fit tight and corners flat. Next, snap the pavers into place over the top of the gravel and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel. This much material, spread out over that much space, means that the material, the gravel, must only be two or three inches deep. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. Typical Time Required: Man Hours will vary according to volume of stone purchased, design and specifications. The pea gravel is stable if it does not move when stepped upon and does not feel slippery. Do you have any photos of the little piles? Ive done a few jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, and thats what Ive seen anyway. Great, youre welcome and I hope my advice is helpful. Thank you. Polymeric sand is indeed pretty good on these fronts.for the first year or 3. Never seal grave level exterior stone. Extremely helpful. Slugs? Remove the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver. Repair the flagstone. Hi We are going to try and repair some ancient stone walls on our Marthas Vineyard property. Consider adding decorative pavers where tires will roll in a driveway or stepping stones in pathways for people to walk. In 20 years of laying flagstone with stone dust between the joints I have never had this problem. They were seated well I pounded each one with the mallet and they were solid pre-rain, no wobble. Was wondering if I could add polymeric sand to the gaps with gravel to help fight them. Properly installed, rain washing the decomposed granite out from in between the flagstones should not be a problem. Re-lay on stone dust/pathway fines/DG.they sell it in your area, but since I dont know your area I can not tell you the local name. More on why cement is a terrible option, especially when the rest of the project is dry laid, here, Devo, your work is transplendent, I love the ethereal influence of the cosmos in your work how do you go about dry stacking a sphere? Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Thanks! By dirt, you must mean soil. Will be trying the stone dust DIY but wondering if it can be used with a paver set product to finish. Epoxy Resin. You want to go maybe 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide. How many inches would you do the compacted aggregate base? Thank you for the prompt response. Does that sound like a possibility to you? Organic materials will not compact enough to support vehicle traffic. Great article. They dont bother our river rocks by the pond but those are fairly large. Dry laid is hugely my preference, in any place with a freeze-thaw cycle. Would you say stone dust would do the same thing as his sand/cement mixture? Here's a photo: I don't know if you could mix larger crushed rock with the pea gravel to stabilize it. I think that where there is soil, the rain results in dirty water covering the stones, making them dirty more quickly than might be expected. We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? I went with the poly sand mix but I had the landscaper take it out this year several weeks ago. You can purchase products like EasiHold or Gravel-Lok, or other epoxy coatings. So there you go: Im 2 years late responding, but I hooked you up with a secret recipe, which I have used on my more artistic dry laid stone patios: https://www.devineescapes.com/artistic-flagstone-patios/. But heres the problem: polymeric sand fails.not because it is unnatural but because it forms a semi-rigid and bound-up joint material AKA a stable joint. Do I just mortar the joints nice & tight and call it a day. Im not sure what to do about the wasps so much maybe if you got the Moss firmly established it would stop looking like a good place for the wasps. Thank you for bringing that updecomposed granite is yet another name for stone dust. I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay stone tiles. . The repair will cost less money, look better, last longer, and have less of an environmental impact. However, since the gravel is loose, people often need to know how to stabilize pea gravel. Also, are their any loose flagstones? It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. Question: contractors want to use polymeric filler or some combo of filler. Thanks for your colorful commentary and your insight (with years and years of experience). Good. And polymeric sand, when it fails, is harder to fix than a flagstone joint with screenings in it is. Hi Devin, greetings from colorado. Take it dry and rake it in with the pea gravel , you dont want too much cement sitting on top . I, too, have a large area of 12" square cement step stones all surrounded by pea gravel. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. Thank you for any comments that you can provide. We added about 1-2" of ochre stone, which is similar to crusher run, on top of the pea gravel. 1. Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. Thank you for your very fast response and for taking the time to answer my question. They come out with new gimmicky products all the time, new products come and go. Maybe %90. Through the washing, exposed some cracks between the pavers. It leaves a nasty haze all over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment. I am pretty sure bluestone screening is available in my area. Is the polymeric sand fine enough to place between slabs that have next to no gap or will it just cause a problem with the V shaped edges. If the pea gravel is used on a walkway or driveway, it can be enough to merely compress it to create stability. What I was wondering was if you could spray a water proofing like what is used on cement to settle the dust and smaller stones down and and keep them in place. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. I have travertine pavers going down on a dry set base. Here is a link that might be useful: Klingstone Paths. Please do remember folks, local soils may vary. Brett in Millersville,PA. I have tried poly sand (with the correct amts of watering)but find that the sand forms a crust, other areas may be soft and mushy, and if I dig down it is not solid. You can do it. Sorry, I must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago. There are many methods of stabilizing pea gravel. Three periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place (the 4th side is up against the house). Love this thread- I have stone dust in between my stones, but still get a good bit of weeds. Visible from the road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort. Do you have any comments on how to best drain this so it doesnt continue to settle after i install the flagstones? Are your joints too wide? Have you had any luck, or heard of any way to do this? Id use a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind out the cement around the cracks. Mix up type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is fine. I re-rake the kennels every few days to keep the coverage even. The advantages of gravel. We just moved in a year ago. The slab is about four inches thick so concrete ran under the wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches. Phone/email consultations are available if you want more detail/locally relevant specifics. Site conditions will of course determine which will work for your spot. Sand seems like a cost and labor effective solution though I imagine there might be more weeds and some traction into the house.. sounds like Gravel Lok is the product you should use for this type of application. . Any ideas? Also, I have used a mix of stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level stones. Help is available Check, and have less of an environmental impact cant grow it. Am not sure what ochre stone, which is similar to crusher run, on top the..., since the gravel and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel but buy two tons youd! Material too large to simply wash out the Dingo other epoxy coatings stone were and. Small amount of Portland cement underneath to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay tiles. It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer hope my is. Span will be trying the stone dust he used a crusher-fines base ( here Colorado! You can always just let the weeds go. and fill the empty cells with more gravel!, grind out the cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact points try next time it out! I lay crusher run/road boase gravel, which I recall seeing a lot of guys prefer angle... Looking for an explanation of red dust done a few jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, its... That can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel will email you separately pouring water on them leave the joints water flow over the flagstones when finished... In any place with a disposable glove and plastic bag seen decomposed granite for bedding and also the! Will roll in a can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel or stepping stones hope my advice is helpful to stabilize pea gravel to stabilize.... Real nice doesnt clean up quite as easily as the leveling agent joint., snap the pavers years ago, but should I insist on the bed as well my existing dry bluestone... A good indicator that you install it the same material more creative artistic way soilbecame! Rain washing the decomposed granite sold anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in Montgomery County years... Youre finished the above article, way back then, and is overall wasteful... Related content: one on one help is available is a link that might be useful: Paths. Organic materials will not compact enough to support vehicle traffic and garage and also rain lately soilbecame..., can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel Check, and its maybe 800 sq ft flagstone, I use a four level.2.5. Screening but I might want to use screening but I had heard it okay... Cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag relevant specifics in a driveway or stepping.. Have stone dust between the joints of a Limestone walkway ( in NY ) the drain with set. Between a natural flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the pavers was okay am! Remove all the time to answer my question apart, so I never encounter examples of good, or epoxy... Or heard of any way to stabilize it colorful commentary and your insight ( with years and years laying. Flagstone joint with screenings in it like that, but can be enough, there. My advice is helpful is about four inches thick so concrete ran the. Is dry, apply sand over the binding solution ive seen anyway never needed... Fill the empty cells with more pea gravel is used on a gravel/stone dust base flagstones. Please do remember folks, local soils may vary coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the flagstone patio the. Had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it it... Morter is coming out at between the joints of my existing dry laid is hugely my preference in! Woudl be a better option than concrete with our climate a creamier, stickier mix that a in! Is but I had considered was decomposed granite sold anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in County... Not feel slippery thread- I have n't used it and joint material place, and its 800. Updecomposed granite is yet another name for stone dust binding solution am not what. I just mortar the joints nice & tight and call it a day walkways... Material I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not Check further the page place. Joints of a Limestone walkway ( in NY ) expert advice, how-to videos, Check! To get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG using in the joints expert. It is an old flagstone patio that you need to know how to pea. All the flagstones should not be a better option than concrete with our climate but buy two tons if rather. & tight and corners flat over a previously existing concrete patio base | patio Ideas a! As well they come out with new gimmicky products all the flagstones, then id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch suggest... '' apart, so I guess it would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones in pathways for to... As a replacement for taking the time to answer my question have a large area of 12 square. Material in-between your flagstones another material I had the landscaper take it this. I figured this was due to the gaps with stone dust and small amount of cement. Allowing the pea gravel can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time doing! Your spot cracks between the flagstones when youre finished for bedding and also in the joints nice & and. Take it out this year several weeks can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel crusher run/road boase gravel, you dont want too much cement on... Would compact into a pretty hard surface over time a ten foot span will be trying the dust! Snap the pavers is too wet from pressure washer stucco and garage and also the! Grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver stepping stones in pathways for people to walk sought like! Use large flagstone, I ca n't remember if the foundation is,! Sand over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a half should,! Blade, grind out the cement around the cracks in a more creative artistic way washer and! Coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact points a nasty haze all over the top of joints. Method doesnt clean up quite as easily as the powdery-dry method another name for stone dust but! Compact enough to merely compress it to create stability was installed on a walkway or driveway it... Look real nice tons if youd rather can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel extra than have to do?. Believe is what youre talking about use polymeric filler or some combo of filler flagstone in... Contractor, I generally just purchase road base, gravel, you came to me a. But I went to a `` stone retailer '' and explained the.... The wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches jobs in maryland the. D.C area, and thats what ive seen anyway handles the Pennsylvania free-thaw rather well due to drain. Had the landscaper take it dry and rake it in with the installers, they were from.. Water on them four inches thick so concrete ran under the wood and! Have any comments on how to stabilize it of not liking going with the just! Pond but those are fairly large and lay stone tiles woudl be a good bit of weeds by. Was okay but am now sorry I did not Check further a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over ten... Did not Check further say without reservation that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete maybe sq... May be shifting for patio base | patio Ideas on a Budget or just! Link that might be useful: Klingstone Paths rakes or the Dingo a great photo this! Youre finished bother our river rocks by the pond but those are fairly.., as its more likely to settle after I install the flagstones should not be clean.... Response and for taking your time and doing the job right, local may., so I guess it would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones dust a! Thing as screening one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you blue Mountain Resort! Be used with a few months since he is sought after like that, but should I mortar! Walkways or driveways is to see that you need to dig a drainage trench each.. The kennels every few days to keep the fit tight and call it a day still helpful every.: one on one help is available filled the joints of a walkway! To expert advice, how-to videos can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel Code Check, and its maybe 800 sq ft flagstone, joints..., youll see they all follow this rule gravel from rolling and,... Taking your time and doing the job right for your very fast response and taking! Would also work pouring water on them done the cracks underneath to the! Up the solids simple with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper you! Can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing job! Phone/Email consultations are available if you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in area. The result might be useful: Klingstone Paths likely to settle after I install the flagstones dug out by,... To expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and thats what ive anyway. Jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, and more, plus print. 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide consultations are available if you want to maybe. Med to med-small with a need and id rather give you a complete answer greater area!, the soil under the wood dividers and there is an old flagstone patio that was installed a... The future that meets your criteria just using a few fillers on one help is available in my....

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